Some problems with C844 and C824

  • Dear collegues, I am not german, so can not read -write german.
    Maybe anybody could help me.
    There are 2 decks: C844 and C824
    1. C844. Problem with real motor. When starting it consumed much current about 500ma, sometimes it is onlly 48-50 ma. I disassembled this motor and put lubricant (silicon lubricant) but it did not help much.
    Is it possible to get new motor?
    Another problem with this deck, (my fault). Accidently when playing a wire -16v on control pcb was shorted to ground (the wire touched the heatsink of Q401. After this tape counter is dim and no controls operate. I pray that the main processor is alive because it will be real problem to get new one and to program it.
    I have service manual for this deck. If anybody need it - I can send it by email.


    2. C824. Beautiful deck too. I exchanded belt on capstan and the deck plays the cassettes, but does not rewind and fast forward. It is difficult to understand operation in rew-ff modes without schematics. Does anybody could provide me with mechanical schematics of this deck?

    Alexander

  • Dear Alexander,


    some guys here, like "zivi" or "briegel" **) are very familiar in reparing Dual Decks. I have had a C824 - nice deck


    Schematics can be found here:
    http://telefunken.te.funpic.de…html#sonstige_Componenten


    http://dual.pytalhost.eu/c824s/
    http://dual.pytalhost.eu/c844s/


    B.R.


    Wolfgang


    refined: **please refer to the forums search engine


    In order to translate German English and vice versa I recommend the usage of an online vocabulary dictionary (incl. ideoms) like -> http://dict.leo.org (pretty good !).This may help you too.

    Dual 505-3 defekt, Dual 1229 (alle Nuss.)
    Linn: LP12 Majik,Karousel, Lingo 4 (Kirsch), Thorens TD160 Super/SME3009R (Mahaghoni), TD240-2 (Nuss.), Restteile TD2001

    Saba 8050 defekt und 8120 (Nuss.), Saba 9141,Yamaha A-S701 (Silber), Yamaha MCR-870D

    Ehemalige Dual:CS504,CS505-1/-2,CS522,1214,1219,1229(2x,darunter SABA 785),1246 (3x),1249 (2x),704,CS627q,2*CS741q Satin und Anthrazit,CR60,C810,C812,C919-1,MV61,CR1730,C824,HS152,komplette 1462er-Serie in Braun Resterampe: Verkauf oder Wertstoffhof

    2 Mal editiert, zuletzt von analogi67 ()

  • Sorry for my brief respone & haste, I would like to add: "Welcome on bord".


    => I guess on behalf of most board members you can write in English, but please be aware that I'm not Admin or Moderator.


    I assume that a lot of expert will help you.


    Spare parts: This is a sad story. Since bancrupt of DSS (Dual Schneider Service) and all of it's successors only some *few* Dual Parts, e.g. Motors, Belt, Heads can be found on http://www.pollin.de ,but I've seen none for C844 or C824.


    Please check "Biete/Suche" (For Sale/For Search) section here. For time to time not working decks (malfunction) were offered, some call it "Schlachtplatte" (sausage platter), i.e. a deck/device to be demounted and in order to save spare parts for others.


    B.R.


    Wolfgang

    Dual 505-3 defekt, Dual 1229 (alle Nuss.)
    Linn: LP12 Majik,Karousel, Lingo 4 (Kirsch), Thorens TD160 Super/SME3009R (Mahaghoni), TD240-2 (Nuss.), Restteile TD2001

    Saba 8050 defekt und 8120 (Nuss.), Saba 9141,Yamaha A-S701 (Silber), Yamaha MCR-870D

    Ehemalige Dual:CS504,CS505-1/-2,CS522,1214,1219,1229(2x,darunter SABA 785),1246 (3x),1249 (2x),704,CS627q,2*CS741q Satin und Anthrazit,CR60,C810,C812,C919-1,MV61,CR1730,C824,HS152,komplette 1462er-Serie in Braun Resterampe: Verkauf oder Wertstoffhof

    Einmal editiert, zuletzt von analogi67 ()

  • Good news,
    I fixed Dual 824 yesterday, service manual helped me to understand mechanics.
    Also I understood that C844 equipped with more precise mechanics. I mean drive system of heads and pitch (rubber) roller. I think solenoids are more effective than gear-wheels. But C824 it really beautiful deck.


    C844 remains. Any suggestions are accepted.
    I hope microprocessor is alive because after theshort sircuit accident stop LED was on and when pressing "start" button the capstans were rotating. But after some time stop LED began to blink and turned off totally.

    Alexander

  • Zitat

    Original von Alex_MGM


    C844 remains. Any suggestions are accepted.
    I hope microprocessor is alive because after theshort sircuit accident stop LED was on and when pressing "start" button the capstans were rotating. But after some time stop LED began to blink and turned off totally.


    Dear Alex,


    yes, C824 it a very good deck still nowadays and in the past Dual Tape Decks may be regarded as "best buys" due the famous DLL (direct load and look technolgy). Competitors was Grundig, Telefunken, and of course japanese brands, like Technics, Pioneer, smaller Nakamichis (e.g. BX100, 125) etc.


    Concerning C844: My C824 has had a similar failure, when set to "repeat" the capstan starts to rotate, headblock where lifted, suddenly deck stops and all dropped back to standstill, then LEDs blinked. Whilst Repeat set on active the loop starts one and one again.


    Reason was:
    a) a mechanical problem of the headblock leverage mechanics ( a small chip) and lack of lubricate and
    b) a to lighten up snap ring done by myself when checking deck first.


    If necessary I had to check diagramms by myself to find accurate translation.


    c) Please check belts (tension)


    B.R.


    Wolfgang

    Dual 505-3 defekt, Dual 1229 (alle Nuss.)
    Linn: LP12 Majik,Karousel, Lingo 4 (Kirsch), Thorens TD160 Super/SME3009R (Mahaghoni), TD240-2 (Nuss.), Restteile TD2001

    Saba 8050 defekt und 8120 (Nuss.), Saba 9141,Yamaha A-S701 (Silber), Yamaha MCR-870D

    Ehemalige Dual:CS504,CS505-1/-2,CS522,1214,1219,1229(2x,darunter SABA 785),1246 (3x),1249 (2x),704,CS627q,2*CS741q Satin und Anthrazit,CR60,C810,C812,C919-1,MV61,CR1730,C824,HS152,komplette 1462er-Serie in Braun Resterampe: Verkauf oder Wertstoffhof

    Einmal editiert, zuletzt von analogi67 ()

  • Wolfgang, there is difference in mechanics between c844 and 824.
    Mechanics of C844 does not depend on belt tension, all movements are done by solenoids.
    In C824 all movements in tape running mechanism depend on belts as gear-wheels instead of solenoids are used.
    Gear-wheels are not solloud as solenoids (especially as in Technics AZ7).
    Also Gear-wheels are used in my Luxman 405, it fucctions more precisely and more silent.


    Also bad sign in C844 that now LED "stop" is constantly off and tape counter is dim too (normally it is 0 when power up).

    Alexander

  • Yes, you're right, this was not in my mind, I hadn't have a C844 nor read the manual.


    Zitat


    Also bad sign in C844 that now LED "stop" is constantly off and tape counter is dim too (normally it is 0 when power up).


    Seems more an electronic failure rather than a mechanical problem.


    => Usage of Forums search engine "C844" and/or Fehler (failure) or e.g. the user "zivi" etc. may be useful.




    B.R.


    Wolfgang

    Dual 505-3 defekt, Dual 1229 (alle Nuss.)
    Linn: LP12 Majik,Karousel, Lingo 4 (Kirsch), Thorens TD160 Super/SME3009R (Mahaghoni), TD240-2 (Nuss.), Restteile TD2001

    Saba 8050 defekt und 8120 (Nuss.), Saba 9141,Yamaha A-S701 (Silber), Yamaha MCR-870D

    Ehemalige Dual:CS504,CS505-1/-2,CS522,1214,1219,1229(2x,darunter SABA 785),1246 (3x),1249 (2x),704,CS627q,2*CS741q Satin und Anthrazit,CR60,C810,C812,C919-1,MV61,CR1730,C824,HS152,komplette 1462er-Serie in Braun Resterampe: Verkauf oder Wertstoffhof

  • Dear collegues, there are some news.
    I fixed C844, now all electronics operate normally, counter, fast forward and rewind - ok.
    The problem was a PNP transistor 2SA963 in power supply circuit.
    As there were no original transistor around - I used our russian KT814 and operates absolutely good, even pinout is the same (it coscts less than 1 euro).


    But old problem with reel motor (right low one, the only purpose of this motor is driving of take-up reel when playing the tape.


    This motor consumes too much power withiut load (300-600ma instead of 15-20 ma as it should). Sometimes it rotates normally with low consuming power and withiut noise, but in a short time operation becomes louder and rotation becames "pulsed". The same time consuming current increases up tp 200-300-500 ma.


    I was thinking that lubrication will fix this problem but it seems the problem lays in poor contact between the collector and brushes in the motor.
    I disassembled the motor several times for cleaning the brushes and collector but it helps only for several seconds. So I think new motor should be purchased.
    I looked throuhg th pollin.de but they have no this motor (at least now). I want to look for any similar motor but I do not kow rotation speed. I think it is about 2000 - 3000 rpm. Is it correct?

    Alexander

  • Some news again with C844
    I purchased new motor (to replace the one driving intake reel when playback) not exact the same but simular (Mabuchi motor but made in China).
    I removed the original motor with controller out of the shield, unsoldered the controller and soldered this controlled to new motor.
    When turning on (new motor with old controller) I saw that the motor runs unstable, hitching and consuming power tends to increase. The same time the new motor witout controller operates normally.
    When I exchanged 2 capacitors on controller board and soldered this board to old motor - all problems disappeared and motor runs normally.
    So I placed the old original motor with repaired controller back into the shield and the deck started to work absolutely normally.
    But I do not like temperature of the power transistors in power supply circuit.
    Firstly I noticed that Q301 (NR PCB) which I exchanged is too hot. In theory this is not fatal but I attached this transistor to much bigger heatsink (I had to attach this heatsink in other location as there was no free space on NR pcb). Now when deck is operating the heatsink is a little worm. I like this much much better.
    Also Q401 belonging to control PC needs better heatsink. When deck operates this transistor (heatsink) is very worm (to my opinion).
    I think next time I could echhange its heatsink too.
    One problem remains (maybe it appeared now).
    When playing a cassette (quality of sound is very good) in some time (less than a minute) right channel disappears. When power off and in several seconds power on - both channels sounds equally, but in several seconds right channel disappears again. The problem is not in play head and its wire.
    So to be continued...

    Alexander

  • Last news.
    Yesterday I located and fixed the last defect.
    When playing in some time sound in right channel disappeared.
    After exchanging several capacitorson amplifier and NR PCBs and one transistor on motitor pcp (later it turned out that it wasnecessary) it became clear that the defect was caused by a relay on NR pcb.
    As I have no new one I tried to resolder it.
    And it helped!
    Now C844 operates normally.
    Also I attached a small heatsink to to power transistor in power supply part of NR pcb.
    So the device (C844) is functioning absolutely normally. :) :D

    Alexander

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