PE 2020 - W250 -No stop without starting

  • Hallo PE-Experten. Ich bin hier seit Jahren Beobachter und nutze die Erfahrung hier, um Dual 1219, 1249 und jetzt einen W250/ PE2020 zu restaurieren. Die PE 2020 ist eine großartig konstruierte Maschine. Ich brauche etwas Hilfe, um es wieder in seinen ursprünglichen Zustand zu bringen. Die Notizen von Kai haben mir sehr geholfen und das Servicehandbuch ist wirklich gut. Es gibt jedoch Einstelltipps im Servicehandbuch, die ich nicht verstehe - in Englisch meiner Muttersprache, oder Deutsch meine zweite Sprache. Vielleicht ist das der Grund, warum meine Stopp-Funktion nicht funktioniert, weder automatisch noch manuell. Ich habe ein ähnliches Problem in diesem Forum gesehen, das 2011 behoben wurde, aber die Bilder werden nicht mehr geladen.


    Die Hauptursache ist, dass sich das Zahnsegment (Pos. 130) nicht in der äußeren Stellung befindet und sich daher die Steuerkurve nicht mehr dreht, bevor der Stoppschalter betätigt werden kann. Wenn ich den Steuerhebel (32) in die Startstellung stelle, bewegt sich das Zahnsegment, das Drehtellergetriebe wird mit dem Nockenrad in Gang gesetzt und der Stopp-Zyklus wird erfolgreich abgeschlossen


    Danke!


    Greg Linton


    Hello PE experts. I have been an observer here for years using the experience here to restore Dual 1219, 1249 and now a W250/ PE2020. The PE 2020 is a magnificent engineered machine. I need some help to get it back to it's prime condition. The notes from Kai really helped and the Service manual are really good. There are however adjustment tips in the Service manual that i do not understand - in English my native language, or German my second language. Perhaps that is why my Stop function does not work, automatic or manual. I saw a similar issue in this forum, addressed in 2011, but the pictures do not load anymore.


    The root cause is that the gear segment (item 130) is not in the outer position and therefore the cam stops turning before the stop switch can be engaged. If I position the control lever (32) to Start position the gear segment will move, engage the turntable gear with the cam gear and it completes the Stop cycle successfully.

  • Have you checked, what happens, when you spin the turntable gear (we call it curve disk)?

    At some point the 130 shoul hit a lever so it moves back in position.


    Did you took all apart or did you just cleanded the necessary stuff?


    Perhaps you can see something on the pictures, from my 2020-Revision?


    take care

    Gerhard

    Grüße


    Gerhard

  • Hello Gerhard.. I did a complete tear down and rebuild in February and put it on hold until now.


    130 will only move into engagement position when lever 32 is moved to Start.


    This is a W250 by the way in case it operates differently from a PE2020.


    Not sure you can see these but try this link to videos I made.

    iCloud Fotos – Apple iCloud


    Thanks for the help. I will look at your revision.


    Here are some pictures and videos from the overhaul

    iCloud Fotos – Apple iCloud


    All the best


    Greg Linton

    Greg Linton


    Dual 1219, 1249 Turntable, Dual P 412 BN 1, Lenco 78 Customized Turntable, W250 / PE 2020 Turntable
    B&W CDM1 SE Speakers

    Focal Subwoofer

    Sonos One Speakers
    Sony SCD-CE59 SACD 5 Disc Changer

    Pro-Ject Pre Box DS 2 digital

    Pro-Ject Phono Box DS2 USB

    Sonos Amp

  • Well, the W250 is a rebranded PE2020. You've got the first Series 2020 with the lift integrated in the Start/Stop-lever. Mine is the upgrade 2020L with the separate Lift.

    But the mechanic beside the tonarm-lift ist the same.


    So, I'm wondering what happens or don't happens.

    I guess, I have to pull out my PE and see for the mechanic what's the difference to your videos.


    But I can do that earliest tomorrow in the evening. But I'll have a look.

    Grüße


    Gerhard

  • Thanks for taking the time! I also struggle with adjustments called out. Especially the first one one page 8 Überhub. This one has so much interaction with other adjustments- especially page 10 tonearm height. I simply do not understand either the English or German instructions (which are a bit different).

    Greg Linton


    Dual 1219, 1249 Turntable, Dual P 412 BN 1, Lenco 78 Customized Turntable, W250 / PE 2020 Turntable
    B&W CDM1 SE Speakers

    Focal Subwoofer

    Sonos One Speakers
    Sony SCD-CE59 SACD 5 Disc Changer

    Pro-Ject Pre Box DS 2 digital

    Pro-Ject Phono Box DS2 USB

    Sonos Amp

  • So, I've fliped my 2020 and tried to figure out, what happens, when you wiggle the start lever. You move the two levers in the picture.


    I guess the lower one is that one, what effekts your releaseprocess to complete your mechanical process.



    But I wonder, what stops your process, cause the curve disk should turn a complete 360 bevor stopping.

    My guess is the gear segment in plastic (see pic) that doesn't intervenes into the turntable gear.



    You moved it in your Video, but when I look at my curve disk, I can't move this gear segment at all. Perhaps it's not correct mounted on your curve disk?


    Can you remove your curve disk and show the upper side an how this gear segment is mounted?


    Thanks for taking the time! I also struggle with adjustments called out. Especially the first one one page 8 Überhub. This one has so much interaction with other adjustments- especially page 10 tonearm height. I simply do not understand either the English or German instructions (which are a bit different).

    Can you send me your instruction, cause I can't see the point "Überhub" on my page 8.

    We can go through your ajustments together - step by step. :thumbup:

    Grüße


    Gerhard

    Einmal editiert, zuletzt von GerhardS () aus folgendem Grund: Ein Beitrag von GerhardS mit diesem Beitrag zusammengefügt.

  • While making new photos I went through the whole cycle again. I concentrated on the 130 movement and found it stayed in place with a little finger pressure. The issue was the gear being retracted just before it was needed. I thought that was due to design. It was actually due to a bent arm on 130 rubbing on the chassis and moving it out of position! :cursing:


    Now I can concentrate on fine adjustments. I simply do not understand the first one on page 8. Überhub. And that has to be right since it has interplay with tonearm height on page 10.


    Thanks again for the help!

  • My interpretation of this:

    Überhub


    Der Überhub wird am Führungsbolzen (DD) des Transporthebels (150) so eingestellt, daß er in angehobener Stellung des Transporthebels bei eingesetzter Achse ca. 1 mm beträgt. Das Maß des Überhubes kann im unteren Schlitz (S) der Führungsbuchse (6) beobachtet werden. Bei eingesetzter Wechselachse steht die Kante des Bolzens etwa in der Mitte des unteren Schlitzes (S). Nach erfolgter Einstellung muß der Führungsbolzen (DD) mit der Kontermutter gesichert werden. Der Überhub wird bei entriegeltem Tonarm eingestellt. Bei der Überprüfung ist darauf zu achten, daß der Transporthebel in seiner Lagerung ein geringes Spiel hat. Der Reibbelag der Friktionsfeder (Y) des Reiblagers muß in der Mitte seiner Kuppe auf dem Mitnahmesegment (YY) aufliegen.


    OneDrive



    Is to put Transporthebel here:


    And adjust to 1mm showing here:

    Greg Linton


    Dual 1219, 1249 Turntable, Dual P 412 BN 1, Lenco 78 Customized Turntable, W250 / PE 2020 Turntable
    B&W CDM1 SE Speakers

    Focal Subwoofer

    Sonos One Speakers
    Sony SCD-CE59 SACD 5 Disc Changer

    Pro-Ject Pre Box DS 2 digital

    Pro-Ject Phono Box DS2 USB

    Sonos Amp

    Einmal editiert, zuletzt von Captain Greg ()

  • Now I see what you're talking about. ;)


    Do you have any problems with the touchingpoint of your tonearm?


    This setting can only be done, if the Changer-axle is mounted!

    You release the tonearm, turn the curve disk until the transportarm lifts the tonearm.

    You should see the edge of the bolt inside the rifle aprox. in the middle of the lower slot.

    You can unscrew the lock nut and set the edge with the grub screw on the transportarm.


    But look for the Steuerpimpel if it has enough friction to move the Tonearm.


    And lock the lock nut on the grub screw after adjustment.


    But when I made my adjustments, I only take care about the friction of the Tonearm. The "Überhub" wasn't disaligned.


    Does this explanation helps?

    Grüße


    Gerhard

  • Thanks Gerhard. My Steuerpimpel renewal works fine. Easier to fix then a 1249!


    My only real complaint is that the head deviates right and left a small bit before setting down. I have to move the setdown point inward a bit as it drifts back out.

    I put the anti-skating at Zero -no tension on the spring -but the head wants to drift one or two mm right after the Hebel releases. But first it goes inward!


    The adjustment on the Überhub helps in that it relieves the pressure on the Führungsbolzen so that the Transporthebel does not rock back and forth before release.


    Perhaps I have too much play in the Tonerarm axis


    I think I will get a PE 2020L. The lift system in the older model is a bit of a pain and takes too much time as one waits for a full cycle. Plus once you Lift you cannot go to Stop. You MUST set down first.

    Greg Linton


    Dual 1219, 1249 Turntable, Dual P 412 BN 1, Lenco 78 Customized Turntable, W250 / PE 2020 Turntable
    B&W CDM1 SE Speakers

    Focal Subwoofer

    Sonos One Speakers
    Sony SCD-CE59 SACD 5 Disc Changer

    Pro-Ject Pre Box DS 2 digital

    Pro-Ject Phono Box DS2 USB

    Sonos Amp

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