701, Start does not function (and sorry for the English)

    Please allow me an English question, I do speak and understand German well but when I write I look like a moron. Feel free to reply in German. I got a problem with my 701 (series2), the start sequence is incorrect.


    - Automatic return at end of the record works fine.
    - Manual stop works fine.
    - New Steurpimpel installed.
    - Standard 1,5 gram tracking force and 1 gram side force.
    - Manually move the arm on the record works fine.


    When I used the start lever, instead of pulling the arm towards the record it pushes it deeper in the armrest. Of course that is because the main lift lever comes up and then turns clockwise (seen from above) and then drops down before moving back to it's rest position. As far as I can see it should first turn clockwise, then come up. That would move the arm the right way.


    Perhaps a video will help explain it better. As you see it is not a question of adjustment, it must be some element that is not correctly connected.
    Made a small video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIVMVi43vkg

    Hello,
    the Steuerpimpel does not seem to have enough grip. Could be due to the material.
    Is this solid plastic?
    But there may also be grease on the friction surface of the lever. Here is a video of my 701.
    Greetings, Michael.

    So hört der Micha:
    CS 701 / CS 601 / CS 461 / Sony PS-4300 --> Kenwood KA-8150 --> Focal Chorus 706, Bowers & Wilkins DM305, Monitor Audio One
    Testgerät --> Onkyo TX-7800 --> Onkyo SC-370 MK II
    1210/CS 10 --> Saba Meersburg Stereo F
    --> (Pioneer S-V43R)
    Wega 3420 (Dual 1229) --> Wega HiFi 3121
    --> Wega lb3520, weiß

    Gefällt mir 1

    Mmmm no, if you compare the two video's you see that the lever is dropped down before when it moves in the right direction. And there lies the problem. It is basically doing the stop routine.



    Very useful video btw, danke, ich verstehe es jetzt besser! The pimpel I use is one that a lot of folks here use. Btw I have been told there SHOULD be grease on the lever.

    Einmal editiert, zuletzt von Mathijs ()

    Mmmmm, think I found what is causing the malfunction, but no idea how to solve it, lol.


    The 'cam following lever' (#115 in the manual) does not move correctly. It is not pushed over the correct position. Still no idea what pushes it though...

    Hi Mathijs,


    Zitat von Mathijs

    The 'cam following lever' (#115 in the manual) does not move correctly. It is not pushed over the correct position. Still no idea what pushes it though...


    Please take a look at the following link:
    Following Lever with Snap Spring


    There is a Snap Spring under the Lever.
    Ist the Snap Spring on its place under the Lever at your Cam Wheel ?

    Gruß
    Sadik



    „If you want to find the secrets of the Universe, think in terms of Energy, Frequency and Vibration.“

    Nikola Tesla

    Yes. Am I correct to assume that spring is there to keep the lever in the 'up' or 'down' position? And could it be that the fact that it does not move smoothly be the cause of the issue?



    Thanks for the help Sadik, much appreciated.

    Einmal editiert, zuletzt von Mathijs ()

    Hi Mathijs


    Zitat von Mathijs

    Am I correct to assume that spring is there to keep the lever in the up or down position?


    Yes, thats right. The Spring is very important, to can hold the Lever in the right position.
    Without the Spring, the foolowing Lever does not work correctly.



    Zitat von Mathijs

    And could it be that the fact that it does not move smoothly be the cause of the issue?

    It can be too. Do you have cleaned up the Cam Wheel?
    In Old Devices, the Grease was chewy like Honey. Then the Mechanics can´t work fine.
    If its not clean and oiled with fresh Grease, than that can be a reason for malfunctions.

    Gruß
    Sadik



    „If you want to find the secrets of the Universe, think in terms of Energy, Frequency and Vibration.“

    Nikola Tesla

    Okay, then we might have the problem solved. I have ordered a lubrication set from DualFred and are eagerly awaiting is arrival.
    Btw that is one tiny spring.....


    Danke sehr!

    Hi Mathijs,


    your Welcome.


    Zitat von Mathijs

    Btw that is one tiny spring.....

    Yes, and they like to fly ^^ .
    If you have a Guitar or another Stringed Instrument, you can make a new Spring from 0,26 or 0,28 Steelstrings. It´s very easy to make.
    I wish you much success in the repair

    Gruß
    Sadik



    „If you want to find the secrets of the Universe, think in terms of Energy, Frequency and Vibration.“

    Nikola Tesla

    I was wondering how to make one in case I lost this one (almost unavoidable...).


    Been working on Linn record players until now and this is my first automatic. Now I love 1970 and 1980 mechanics (restoring an MGB as well), but this is really incredibly detailed and complex work. It's .... German.

    Hi,


    Zitat von Mathijs

    I was wondering how to make one in case I lost this one (almost unavoidable...).


    Loot at here:
    Selfmade Spring


    With a toothstick, 1,5cm from a String from the Guitar and a lttle bit patience, it is very easy to make one.
    I lost 4 Springs in 7 Years and never found one of those :D



    Zitat von Mathijs

    but this is really incredibly detailed and complex work.


    Its only a exercise thing, like all the other things in this World.
    If you have repaired 2 or 3 Dual Turntable, then you can see, that ist not so difficult like the first one ;)

    Gruß
    Sadik



    „If you want to find the secrets of the Universe, think in terms of Energy, Frequency and Vibration.“

    Nikola Tesla

    Einmal editiert, zuletzt von vinylkiller ()

    Unfortunately, cleaning and lubrication did not solve the issue. Somehow the cam is not moved to the correct position (the small spring works, when switched manually the can remains in the correct position). Now that means pin indicated is not touched. (ignore the large amount of grease, while working on it I rather have too much then too little, will be cleaned up).


    Which of the metal things should operate that pin?

    Does everything look okay here?


    Now I have some doubts that this is correctly installed:



    Vielen Dank im Voraus für jede Hilfe!

    Hi Mathijs,


    do you have the Service Manual for the 701?
    If not, then download it first from the following link:
    Dual 701 Service Manual
    Scroll down, and there you can download it.
    The first Version is in Englisch and the second one is in German language.
    In the Service Manual you can see the Complete Operations from the Tutntable, and how can fix any problems.
    It can helps, too can understand the complete functionality.


    Zitat von Mathijs

    (ignore the large amount of grease, while working on it I rather have too much then too little, will be cleaned up).

    But too much Grease, can be counterproductive. A little bit fresh Grease is comletely adequate.



    Zitat von Mathijs

    Which of the metal things should operate that pin?
    [Blockierte Grafik: https://i.ibb.co/4TrZs59/IMG-0184.jpg]

    I think, you have swapped the Pictures.
    The Pin at the following Lever, works in combination with the Part #146 (the Part, where the Spring is at your 3rd Picture) at the side 22 in the Manual.
    Take a look at Side 16 in the Manual at the Point "Starting".



    Zitat von Mathijs

    Now I have some doubts that this is correctly installed:
    [Blockierte Grafik: https://i.ibb.co/cwp26XJ/IMG-0185.jpg]

    I have no 701 to can looking for, but i think you have installed it correctly.
    I found this Pics in the Board:
    Automatik 701 einstellen
    and this:
    701 Probleme mit Kurvenrad



    Please read the following Threads. Maybe that can help you to fix your problem.:
    701 Probleme mit Kurvenrad
    CS 701 Automatikproblem / u.A. Keine Endabschaltung
    Automatik 701 einstellen


    More detailed Pictures or a short Video from your Turntable can help to can find the problem.

    Gruß
    Sadik



    „If you want to find the secrets of the Universe, think in terms of Energy, Frequency and Vibration.“

    Nikola Tesla

    2 Mal editiert, zuletzt von vinylkiller ()

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